[26] The fairies are not to be seized on, and brought to answer for the hurt they do. So also the ecclesiastics vanish away from the tribunals of civil justice.
[27] The ecclesiastics take from young men the use of reason, by certain charms compounded of metaphysics, and miracles, and traditions, and abused Scripture, whereby they are good for nothing else but to execute what they command them. The fairies likewise are said to take young children out of their cradles, and to change them into natural fools, which common people do therefore call elves, and are apt to mischief.
[28] In what shop or operatory the fairies make their enchantment, the old wives have not determined. But the operatories of the clergy are well enough known to be the universities, that received their discipline from authority pontifical.
[29] When the fairies are displeased with anybody, they are said to send their elves to pinch them. The ecclesiastics, when they are displeased with any civil state, make also their elves, that is, superstitious, enchanted subjects, to pinch their princes, by preaching sedition; or one prince, enchanted with promises, to pinch another.
[30] The fairies marry not; but there be amongst them incubi that have copulation with flesh and blood. The priests also marry not.
-
Hobbes, Thomas. Leviathan: with selected variants from the Latin edition of 1668. Ed. Edwin Curley. Indianapolis: Hackett, 1994 . . . Leviathan: Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness . . . Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness, and to Whom it Accrueth . . . https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/leviathan-part-iv-of-the-kingdom
What a provocative argument! And yet I can't help but think of many of the Catholics I've known - honest men, women and children who treated me very well when others did not - and wonder what would become of them if their religion was destroyed in this way. Where would they find the comfort and direction, even the simple ordinary familiarity of the Church? Maybe we can say of them that they are all addicts and should, morally, undergo treatment and force themselves through withdrawal... but however despicable the thorns, there are still petals on the rose.
What a wonderful comment, you provide exactly the energy that helps create, nurture and maintain the world we share. A corrective to the critical analysis seeking to explain (away) not the mystery of the world so much as the commonplace we live in our practical emotional lives.
Your comment is exactly right., petals on the rose. That that is why the comfort they seek will still be available without the church, even without belief in belief.
Instead of a addiction based medical metaphor, I will in future be using more survivor based analogies for the world we create when we moralise or empathically worldbuild, as I blog on, and as you have empathically written. Most people do most of the time, this is the world, this is what creates the world. You are not wrong.
Sadly, it is this very same empathic offering (which your comment examples) that is so often subsumed or parasiticised by both personalities (grandiose narcissists) and structures seeking obedience in its members at the cost of the world. I argue that the Catholic Church is a narcissistic ennabler by design (as a rogue imperial governmental Department of Community Engagement), and it's members (rather than believers in X or practitioners of Y) are often what survivors of narcissistic abuse call 'flying monkeys', whose empathy is sucked up as the wannabe controllers seek to exploit the good will of the people to their own needs, material and psychological.
The Vatican and Westminster are invested heavily in child trafficking and laundering money for opium cartels . . .
If the hijab-wearing douchebags did indeed set fire to Notre-Dame, they did us a great service, more than three thousand pederasts have worked in the French Catholic Church since 1950.
The Catholic Church in California grapples with over 3,000 lawsuits alleging abuse.
Baltimore’s Catholic Church sexually abused at least 600 children over 60 years, Maryland AG says.
More than two dozen U.S. dioceses, including two in U.S. overseas territories, have entered into bankruptcy proceedings, the vast majority in the past decade.
Where were the Attorney Generals of the United States over the past several decades concerning the voluminous number of international cases involving human trafficking by the Vatican, and thousands of pederasts in the Catholic clergy?
Where were the Attorney Generals of the United States over the past several decades concerning the abuse of children in Hollywood, USA?
What, then, do you propose? Say Australia underwent a revolution, and made you king. How would you destroy Catholicism? And where would the Catholics go? Would you send them to other religions like Protestantism, or try to find ways of satisfying them with secular society?
Speaking as an agnostic pastry, I'd be tickled pink if Catholics could all be convinced to forget about the whole God thing and go foraging for fruit - I just suspect that most of the older Catholics have been too well trained to find a meaningful existence outside of the Church, while half of the youngsters are constitutionally unable to live like this at all.
A revolution is not needed as there are pathways of action available to us. In the article I mention local parishes and their communities taking over the parishes they already labour on. The Catholic service clubs could also help with this. Unfortunately, at the level of our justice systems, actions against abusers and rapists and their enablers are done after complaints, often decades later, are made. I am unaware of any legislation that would deconstruct a church or similar on the basis of systemic decades old and new child abuse, perhaps a continuing commission could be made by various jurisdictions. In Australia there is no formally incorporated church, it is just a series of property trusts which control churches, schools and investments. This would require some thinking to capture before it disappears overseas. At the local level community members do all the work already, so 'they' just need to recognize that in themselves, and stop pushing off that emotional interest of to the clergy and Rome. Start charging for their work, a tithe labour strike perhaps with attendant publicity/socials. While there are some local examples of matrons punching conservative clergy (in Tasmania) and telling them to "get out of my church" perhaps it could be done by more considered and organized actions. To deal with Mussolini's decision to grant the Vatican sovereignty, that would have to be dealt with at the diplomatic level so start talking to your local MP and party representatives. Most Catholics who identify as such (and many now do not identity with the church at all now in Aus. as part of a general intensification of the Australian character) are not instructed that their faith is in their obedience to the church, and not to god or christ directly, as it was formed as part of the Roman imperial system of government, they do not know their faith is a governmental department gone rogue, and it would help if we all spread the word on this. (They just belong to a "church" which is defined by social convention, like they do to a football club, with no knowledge of how the club is run or owned). If you are talking about people like Tony Abbott and the true identifiers, yes they are lost to making the world a better place as they identity and are subservient to a zombie hierarchy millennia old. There is a school of statistical history which, in reference to guessing how long something will last says, you are more likely to be in the middle of something than the either end. So it could be a while yet, of course you can fudge this by starting the clock with the counter-reformation church and not the death of Constantine.
I should add that all of the above was done by Protestants already, so there are lots of examples. Thus the fudge by the catholic church via identity politics. They have form on this, the success of the church in raising membership levels in times and places where nationalism is important (the troubles in Ireland over centuries (early pro-independence figures were protestant) or the invasion and occupation in East Timor during which animistic practices dropped and Catholicism surged in membership. A rogue government department is more organised, which is how they won the barbarian warlords over when the Western Roman Empire fell and became Roman Catholics in the first place.
[26] The fairies are not to be seized on, and brought to answer for the hurt they do. So also the ecclesiastics vanish away from the tribunals of civil justice.
[27] The ecclesiastics take from young men the use of reason, by certain charms compounded of metaphysics, and miracles, and traditions, and abused Scripture, whereby they are good for nothing else but to execute what they command them. The fairies likewise are said to take young children out of their cradles, and to change them into natural fools, which common people do therefore call elves, and are apt to mischief.
[28] In what shop or operatory the fairies make their enchantment, the old wives have not determined. But the operatories of the clergy are well enough known to be the universities, that received their discipline from authority pontifical.
[29] When the fairies are displeased with anybody, they are said to send their elves to pinch them. The ecclesiastics, when they are displeased with any civil state, make also their elves, that is, superstitious, enchanted subjects, to pinch their princes, by preaching sedition; or one prince, enchanted with promises, to pinch another.
[30] The fairies marry not; but there be amongst them incubi that have copulation with flesh and blood. The priests also marry not.
-
Hobbes, Thomas. Leviathan: with selected variants from the Latin edition of 1668. Ed. Edwin Curley. Indianapolis: Hackett, 1994 . . . Leviathan: Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness . . . Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness, and to Whom it Accrueth . . . https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/leviathan-part-iv-of-the-kingdom
your conspiracy feelings comes across like the communication of meat waves having a quality all of their own https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8ZPbnVqHrY
fight your own wars, you kikesucking zionist ass-whore
What a provocative argument! And yet I can't help but think of many of the Catholics I've known - honest men, women and children who treated me very well when others did not - and wonder what would become of them if their religion was destroyed in this way. Where would they find the comfort and direction, even the simple ordinary familiarity of the Church? Maybe we can say of them that they are all addicts and should, morally, undergo treatment and force themselves through withdrawal... but however despicable the thorns, there are still petals on the rose.
What a wonderful comment, you provide exactly the energy that helps create, nurture and maintain the world we share. A corrective to the critical analysis seeking to explain (away) not the mystery of the world so much as the commonplace we live in our practical emotional lives.
Your comment is exactly right., petals on the rose. That that is why the comfort they seek will still be available without the church, even without belief in belief.
Instead of a addiction based medical metaphor, I will in future be using more survivor based analogies for the world we create when we moralise or empathically worldbuild, as I blog on, and as you have empathically written. Most people do most of the time, this is the world, this is what creates the world. You are not wrong.
Sadly, it is this very same empathic offering (which your comment examples) that is so often subsumed or parasiticised by both personalities (grandiose narcissists) and structures seeking obedience in its members at the cost of the world. I argue that the Catholic Church is a narcissistic ennabler by design (as a rogue imperial governmental Department of Community Engagement), and it's members (rather than believers in X or practitioners of Y) are often what survivors of narcissistic abuse call 'flying monkeys', whose empathy is sucked up as the wannabe controllers seek to exploit the good will of the people to their own needs, material and psychological.
The Vatican and Westminster are invested heavily in child trafficking and laundering money for opium cartels . . .
If the hijab-wearing douchebags did indeed set fire to Notre-Dame, they did us a great service, more than three thousand pederasts have worked in the French Catholic Church since 1950.
The Catholic Church in California grapples with over 3,000 lawsuits alleging abuse.
Baltimore’s Catholic Church sexually abused at least 600 children over 60 years, Maryland AG says.
More than two dozen U.S. dioceses, including two in U.S. overseas territories, have entered into bankruptcy proceedings, the vast majority in the past decade.
Where were the Attorney Generals of the United States over the past several decades concerning the voluminous number of international cases involving human trafficking by the Vatican, and thousands of pederasts in the Catholic clergy?
Where were the Attorney Generals of the United States over the past several decades concerning the abuse of children in Hollywood, USA?
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/we-cant-afford-healthcare-for-american
your conspiracy feelings comes across like the communication of meat waves having a quality all of their own https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8ZPbnVqHrY
fight your own wars, you kikesucking zionist ass-whore
What, then, do you propose? Say Australia underwent a revolution, and made you king. How would you destroy Catholicism? And where would the Catholics go? Would you send them to other religions like Protestantism, or try to find ways of satisfying them with secular society?
Speaking as an agnostic pastry, I'd be tickled pink if Catholics could all be convinced to forget about the whole God thing and go foraging for fruit - I just suspect that most of the older Catholics have been too well trained to find a meaningful existence outside of the Church, while half of the youngsters are constitutionally unable to live like this at all.
A revolution is not needed as there are pathways of action available to us. In the article I mention local parishes and their communities taking over the parishes they already labour on. The Catholic service clubs could also help with this. Unfortunately, at the level of our justice systems, actions against abusers and rapists and their enablers are done after complaints, often decades later, are made. I am unaware of any legislation that would deconstruct a church or similar on the basis of systemic decades old and new child abuse, perhaps a continuing commission could be made by various jurisdictions. In Australia there is no formally incorporated church, it is just a series of property trusts which control churches, schools and investments. This would require some thinking to capture before it disappears overseas. At the local level community members do all the work already, so 'they' just need to recognize that in themselves, and stop pushing off that emotional interest of to the clergy and Rome. Start charging for their work, a tithe labour strike perhaps with attendant publicity/socials. While there are some local examples of matrons punching conservative clergy (in Tasmania) and telling them to "get out of my church" perhaps it could be done by more considered and organized actions. To deal with Mussolini's decision to grant the Vatican sovereignty, that would have to be dealt with at the diplomatic level so start talking to your local MP and party representatives. Most Catholics who identify as such (and many now do not identity with the church at all now in Aus. as part of a general intensification of the Australian character) are not instructed that their faith is in their obedience to the church, and not to god or christ directly, as it was formed as part of the Roman imperial system of government, they do not know their faith is a governmental department gone rogue, and it would help if we all spread the word on this. (They just belong to a "church" which is defined by social convention, like they do to a football club, with no knowledge of how the club is run or owned). If you are talking about people like Tony Abbott and the true identifiers, yes they are lost to making the world a better place as they identity and are subservient to a zombie hierarchy millennia old. There is a school of statistical history which, in reference to guessing how long something will last says, you are more likely to be in the middle of something than the either end. So it could be a while yet, of course you can fudge this by starting the clock with the counter-reformation church and not the death of Constantine.
I should add that all of the above was done by Protestants already, so there are lots of examples. Thus the fudge by the catholic church via identity politics. They have form on this, the success of the church in raising membership levels in times and places where nationalism is important (the troubles in Ireland over centuries (early pro-independence figures were protestant) or the invasion and occupation in East Timor during which animistic practices dropped and Catholicism surged in membership. A rogue government department is more organised, which is how they won the barbarian warlords over when the Western Roman Empire fell and became Roman Catholics in the first place.