Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Apple Pie's avatar

> Or should be, and that’s why we should, that’s why our shoulding has a selective advantage in organising groups, individuals survive better if we should ourselves into groups, and will do so as long as they get along. Groups help individuals survive better than individuals not in a group, i.e. not in the world we should into existence.

OK this is very playful, but it's understandable here - you're saying simultaneously that:

* individuals survive better in groups

* this is more effective if the drive to join and protect the group has a moral component

> Groups do not should, attempts to do so are world-building rather than worlding, and ideological rather than getting along.

Wait, really? Aren't we ourselves groups of organs, groups of cells, groups of bacteria and eukarya all getting along together so well that we *seem* like individuals?

> Group selection is not not a thing. Group selection is not of the world. Group selection would only work if groups were already around to be selected from among. Group selection does not create groups in the first place. So it has nothing to select from. Group selection can only be a parasite unless it can find another job to do.

Now I either don't understand anymore, or else I don't agree. This is, I suspect, what makes things so difficult for me; I want to pin down what a person means in terms of propositions P, Q, and R, which have truth values that I want to evaluate.

> Lip-service is the agreeableness of those trying to get along with each other, you never know, it might be good.

This reminds me of the way Confucius said that morality consisted of attention to ritual, but I can't get at what is being said well enough to know whether you're saying that, or you're criticizing that, or you're trying to express something else.

Expand full comment
4 more comments...

No posts